GENERAL MOTORS" It has been fitted with the adjustable sight, type 3 barrel band, and rotary safety sometime in We got our hands on one of the original MCXs for some testing. Thank you. The high wood refers to the stock, not the hand guard. found to indicate this was done by the original manufacturer(s). Bore Condition:The bore is bright; semi bright at the muzzle. IP used some Rockola wood at their start up. Late during the production of their type III M1 stocks, Winchester and Inland increased the length The barrel is marked "SAGINAW S.G. DIV. My IP is in the first serial block--1776xxx. The inside of the operating slide is marked IP which is a Irwin-Pedersen mark (page 65). There is, however, spotty wear and thinning along the barrel and around the muzzle. CARBINE / CAL. The technical storage or access is strictly necessary for the legitimate purpose of enabling the use of a specific service explicitly requested by the subscriber or user, or for the sole purpose of carrying out the transmission of a communication over an electronic communications network. It is in about Very Good Plus to Fine condition. Both were Divisions of General Motors but were located in different cities. While a crack can happen anywhere in the stock there are several places it was more prone to happen than anywhere else. Most WWII carbines had hand guards with two rivets rather than the four rivet hand guards found on later production carbines and many rebuilds. Saginaw SG guns were produced from the remnants of the failed Irwin-Pedersen factory in Grand I purchased this one from a collector freind of mine who told me it was an S' G', but with the information provided here it appears to be incorrect. Barrel and receiver marked with Inland (barrel manufacturer for Saginaw) 4-44. I shaped sling cut, High Wood covers slide Most were of the flat top variety although the rounded bolts came into use by a few makers before production ceased. Get Guns.com offers and news!! The underside of the handguard is marked RSG which was used by Saginaw SG and Saginaw Gear(page 138). Questions should be posted in the appropriate forum. Unfortunately, after the weapon has changed hands one or two times, this knowledge is often lost forever, so any carbine seen today that is purported to be all original must be scrutinized very closely. 3?7XXXX ? The same caveat basically holds true for the rotary safety. CARBINE / CAL. Bolt is parkerized. The receiver is marked Saginaw S'G', the barrel shows Underwood 8 43 with the bomb underneath. The bolt is marked SG on the right lug which was used by Saginaw SG and Irwin-Pedersen (page 36). The best way to ensure an item is yours is to purchase it directly off the website. another state. More pics on my later response. None of the carbines produced by Irwin-Pedersen (IP) were accepted by Ordnance. Therefore, just because a carbine retains its original parkerizing, this does not mean that it was never overhauled. Dating a carbine by its serial number alone is difficult and not always accurate given the circumstances inherent with manufacturing and the logistics situation reconstruction of this history, we have a short survey on our forum (with instructions) Chambered in .30 cal, A very scarce WW2 Saginaw manufacture U.S. M1 Carbine .30 Caliber Semi-Auto rifle. the first M2 stocks. It has a receiver stamped SG on the left front side, both were divisions of General Motors though. Carbines have been, and still are, The Grand Rapids facility stopped carbine production on 01 Jan 1944 but continued to make receivers and trigger housings which were sent to the Saginaw Plant for assembly. Markings: There is no visible import mark. of a company that is committed to your satisfaction. Without a subpoena, voluntary compliance on the part of your Internet Service Provider, or additional records from a third party, information stored or retrieved for this purpose alone cannot usually be used to identify you. The rifling is sharp. Some restorers have attempted to file down the sight base to reduce or eliminate the punch marks but this normally requires reparkerizing to hide the work. The M2 Carbine had a selective fire capability i.e. full auto. Neither the M1 Rifle or the M1 Carbine had a selective fire capability. The M2 carbine replaced most of the submachine guns used the US by the time of the Korean War. Caveat Emptor! Saginaw or Saginaw'. or may have other markings. Ths M1 Carbine has since been refinished. Only Irwin-Pedersen & Saginaw SG receivers were produced with a tooling hole (page 22 of Craig Rieschs book, U.S. M1 Carbines Wartime Production 7th Edition). A number of researchers and authors are present on the forums, helping others and seeking information for various research projects. Since many of the parts were produced by subcontractors often hundreds, if not thousands, of miles apart, the parkerizing found on such parts would certainly not be expected to be uniform. Which Saginaw? receivers were brought back online and completed (i.e. Inland ManufacturingEngineering & Presentation Gift Serial Numbers(not government issue). Your carbine was one of the M1 carbines used by the Bavarian government after the end of WWII. Saginaw Steering Gear Division of General Motors Grand Rapids. Carbines that have one of these serial numbers may be an Engineering prototype, a "presentation" carbine, or both. The left stock is stamped M-U where the sling is inserted, apparently meaning Marlin Firearms made the stock; walnut with a high wood, two rivet handguard. Letter prefixes X through XD were initially allocated by Inland for carbines intended for internal use only. At least one document has been found that indicates Saginaw received Ordnance The barrel is marked "SAGINAW S.G. DIV. No documentation from Ordnance, or any of the prime contractors, has been found that indicates the date and serial number of carbines as they were assembled or when they passed 30 M1.; the top rear is marked SAGINAW S G / 3426991. Saginaw Carbines made at the Irwin-Pedersen Grand Rapids, Michigan factory are marked SG . As a new member I must admit that my interest in the M1 carbine was relatively limited until I found a little beauty that my favorite gun dealer had originally wanted to keep for himself. The crossed cannons escutcheon on the right side and other government markings should be present, albeit often faint from years of wear. I have some other shooters so this one has been a safe queen. author's opinion these replica stamps should be altered in a manner that makes the marks readily identifiable replicas and not the originals, as most people wouldn't know the difference. SOLD - Factory Chrome Walther PPK - Rare. The metal shows scrapes, scratches, and discoloration from oil residue and oxidation. Contracts had a completion date but there was no requirement for completing one contract before starting another. The stock is pretty clean and has cartouche markings on it. 30 M1. and the top rear is marked SAGINAW SG / 3289121. Given the high volume of production, receivers were generally assembled as part of a carbine within a few months after the receiver was serial numbered. If you choose to do so please Overall, this rifle rates in about Very Good Plus condition as refinished. the machining of the wood below the recoil plate to provide better support. When the narrow L type non-adjustable rear sights were replaced by the adjustable variety during overhaul, the later types were generally staked into place by punch pricks on both sides of the sight base. Is it SAGINAW S.G. or SAGINAW S'G'? Used early in production. While genuine government replacement carbine stocks in unissued new condition are still around, these were generally of the post-WWII configuration and were not stamped with WWII prime contractor markings. Saginaw Carbines made in the original Saginaw, Michigan factory are marked S.G. or SG. The Type I rear sight is marked with a partial S on the left which is consistent with Saginaw SG and others (page 29). And unlike our competitors, it extends beyond the buying process. After WWII many stocks & handguards did not have a manufacturers mark. The barrel flat is marked with a flaming bomb. Type I, II, and III stocks were strengthened forward of the trigger housing by means of a "bridge" spanning the width of the stock. There are 2 separate Saginaw Gear manufacturers. Legacy Collectibles strives to provide quality investment-grade military collectibles to an appreciative public. Ordnance Department Acceptance Marks (cartouche), End User Marks added in the years after issue, Some stocks were marked with the crossed cannons only, Some stocks were marked with an inspection mark and crossed cannons, Sometimes the cartouche has worn off over time and use, Many inspection marks and/or crossed cannons were stamped at a slight angle causing a deeper imprint on one side than the other, The inspection mark and crossed cannon designs are specific to the prime contractor who assembled the carbine, The height, width, and positioning of the inspection mark and crossed cannons in relation to one another were also specific to the manufacturer, Replica metal stamps with which to forge or duplicate the cartouches are sold by a number of retailers. Location: Upwind of the Giant Plaster Lemon. Copyright 2012-document.write(new Date().getFullYear()) There is virtually no color distinction between A carbine that has obviously seen some use will show battering of the slide in this area. Saginaw marked the Grand Rapids factory M1 Carbines SG to differentiate them from the ones produced at the original Saginaw plant. A full parts list with their markings is included in the photographs. Questions should be posted in the appropriate forum. Because of it's size and weight the M1 carbine became fairly popular with many GI's. annual growth rings, giving Birch a somewhat dull, uniform appearance. If a Saginaw S'G' strip it down to see if it has any IP Irwin Peterson parts, could be a transitional carbine. It must be noted that a number of the prime contractors did not manufacture barrels and used those made by other firms. Saginaw (S.G.)-Main Manufacture and identification codes: "S.G."-Main plant location: Saginaw, Michigan.-Average Cost to Government per completed rifle, $38.00 Irwin-Pedersenhad assembled only 3,542 guns at the time, none of which were accepted by the government. Except for very early Inlands, virtually all carbines were stamped on the right side of the stock with the familiar crossed cannons Ordnance Department escutcheon. Serial number blocks were assigned by the Ordnance Department on an as needed basis, generally in response to the awarding of a contract to a given manufacturer. This M1 Carbine has been rebuilt and now uses a mix of Inland and USGI parts. Ser. Therefore, a carbine made by any of the other firms will not have barrels made by the same company that produced the receiver. I recently picked up an M1 Carbine, manufactered by Inland MFG DIV/ General Motors. They put on the Mauser type rear sight and milled the original rear sight pedestal to reduce glare. 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