113.203.156.141 (talk) 23:52, 1 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], First of all, those references you've cited are: 1) popular culture based books 2) recent and based on art and theatrical depictions; as such, these references are unfounded and misinformed when it comes to Ottoman history. - Worldandhistory (talk) 16:33, 28 September 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], @Phso2: Two of your sources are at stake (Colin Iber's and Peirce's), please read page 136 of Colin's book, this gives definition of Slave in general term, so calling any member of Sultan's family a slave does not necessarily makes them a slave by origin, and P simply used a text from Alberi, P herself only called M a concubine. Depriving someone of their last name or title for your own satisfaction is NOT just, it's highly misleading and causes conflict with Ottoman history. In his 1551 letter to Sigismund II concerning the embassy of Piotr Opaliski, Suleiman wrote that the Ambassador had seen "Your sister and my wife." Not only is the phrasing leaving much to be desired, the conclusion is also a subjective speculation presented as a fact. Like every woman in the harem, there is little information about her early life; she was from either Circassia or Montenegro. Thank you. The original caption is only "sultana" and there is no reference to Rosne Pranvere. She built numerous mosques, madrasahs, hammams, and resting places for pilgrims travelling to the Islamic holy city of Makkah. Worldandhistory (talk) 14:13, 4 March 2016 (UTC) The poem in the show was written by Mustafa's companion, Yayha Bey. In real life, Yayha Bey also did write a poem too. So it was not Suleiman himse 1581 deaths. "[29], Hurrem Sultan is known as the first woman in Ottoman history to concern herself with state affairs. [25] Also, in Ottoman society, mothers played more influential roles in their sons' educations and in guiding their careers. The Ottoman archives and privy purse records prove that she was Mahidevran Hatun, regardless that fact that she was the mother of the crown prince or had been once a favorite of Suleiman. 113.203.190.165 (talk) 02:19, 4 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], Why did popular culture assume, for example, that Hurrem was participant in the executions of Ibrahim Pasha and Mustafa? For Ukrainian language novels, see Osyp Nazaruk (1930) (English translation is available). Scholars have wondered if Hurrem's alliance with Mihrimah Sultan and Rstem Pasha helped secure the throne for one of Hurrem's sons. 190.218.117.86 (talk) 22:51, 3 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], The thing is, unlike yours, I'm not fabricating a theory! And there is no problem in distinguishing the difference between her, Gulfem Hatun and Fulane Hatun. commercial banks of the capitalist states book; nicholas martin roosevelt; beiersdorf cleveland, tn closing; the difference between body, soul and spirit 125.209.82.212 (talk) 13:40, 4 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], I agree with the latest proposal. Mahidevran Turbesi5.jpg 320 240; 21 KB. And what was her life like before she met Suleiman?For a long time, little was known about Mahidevran Sultan. However, I added ""the most convincing theory"" was wrong I admit, therefore, I have changed that. [2][3][4][5] She has been known by this title since Nurbano's time. Who were her parents? That's all I'm requesting, for the sake of respecting Ottoman cultural heritage. Since founded in 2002, no complaint about the unreliability of it's sources has been made by Turkey Govt. Among her first foundations were a mosque, two Quranic schools (madrassa), a fountain, and a women's hospital near the women's slave market (Avret Pazary) in Istanbul (Haseki Sultan Complex). [41], Hurrem is known to have been very generous to the poor. The book comprises 27 paintings and 27 poems After months of hard work Grantlea Downs School celebrated the opening of its sensory footpath last Friday. In 1546, one more half-brother was on the governors market; Prince Beyazt. If you want you may mention an unnecessary word "slave" to the totally irrelevant section of "Origin and early life" but trust me you'll spent your whole life (and next one as well if you're a monk) reverting the changes made by those who have problem with this piece of word. [11], Even the reports of the Venetian ambassadors (baili) at Suleiman's court, the most extensive and objective first-hand Western source on Hurrem to date, were often filled with the authors own interpretations of the harem rumours. Nedim Ardoa (talk) 06:21, 31 January 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply], She was an Albanian; her father, Abdullah Recai was a musician and her brother was Nakkashan Adem. Mustafa became verypopular in the region under the guidance of his mother. I dont see why someone should expand these articles as seen from the title and the heated discussion on chief consort below that even sources are not enough and I just cant do such long discussions. Isn't that important by the way for the authors to mention that M was a convert slave instead of giving this information in a subliminal message form like "M, the daughter of Abdullah"? Prominent Ukrainian writer Pavlo Zahrebelny describes Hurrem as "an intelligent, kind, understanding, openhearted, candid, talented, generous, emotional and grateful woman who cares about the soul rather than the body; who is not carried away with ordinary glimmers such as money, prone to science and art; in short, a perfect woman."[43]. Why popular theatre plays describe her character despite strangers of all types being forbidden into the harem? ", That's not the correct conclusion, though. My name is Moniek and I am from the Netherlands. I think she was chief consort but later lost her position though she remained first wife. I badly need a reliable source to back either claim. There have been novels written in other languages: in French, a fictionalized biography by Willy Sperco (1972); in German, a novel by Johannes Tralow (1944, reprinted many times); a very detailed novel in Serbo-Croatian by Radovan Samardzic (1987); one in Turkish by Ulku Cahit (2001). In the 2003 TV miniseries, Hrrem Sultan, she was played by Turkish actress and singer Glben Ergen. In 1520 after the death of Selim I, Suleiman moved to Istanbul to succeed his father, his court followed him afew weeks later. WebThe result of the strife for Mahidevran was that she was exiled with her son Mustafa to live in the province of Manisa, where the latter became a Sultan governor. [10] [11] Find a sensible answer please and then come back with your personal comments. In 1543, right after the sudden death of Prince Mehmet, the womens war started upagain. Mahidevran and Suleiman had five children -- three sons and two daughters. If you treat Ottoman history as merely entertainment, you're not doing your job to inform people. [36] In Jerusalem she established the Haseki Sultan Imaret in 1552, a public soup kitchen to feed the poor,[37] which was said to have fed at least 500 people twice a day. I guess the authors were inspired by Illuminatis;) (just a joke, no offense) Anyway, I can't argue with you, I can only simply ask for an admin's attention to all of your WP:OR. Hope you got my point. - Worldandhistory (talk) 18:40, 29 September 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], Wow, it seems you desperately did some personal research, you have all the time in the world don't you? Mahidevran Sultan once hit hurrem untill her face turned to a bloody puddle, something that didn't please the sultan. Hurrem also unlike Mahidevran Suleiman started to see him as a great danger to his rule. The death of television icon Betty White received a lot of attention in popular culture. Acting on Hurrem Sultan's orders, Rustem Pasha had engraved Mustafa's seal and sent a letter seemingly written from his mouth to Shah Tahmasb I, and then sent Shah's response to Suleiman. Mustafa was later accused of causing unrest. She quotes the sultan as saying, "with the old king we were like brothers, and if it pleases the All-Merciful God, with this king we will be as father and son." Everyone is emphasizing on only one source for the subjected woman that is of Leslie P. Peirce's and simply ignoring those sources/references/theories they don't like. What you see in popular culture, such as Muhtesem Yuzyil, is not true Ottoman History. After that, although Hurrem's successor Nurbanu Sultan and her successor Safiye Sultan exchanged letters with queens, there is no other example of a female sultan who personally contacted a king other than Hurrem Sultan. Therefore, Suleiman had to announce that he sent Mustafa to the Persian border for safety reasons. Suleiman (r. 15201566) actually had multiple sons, almost all of whom would predecease him. By the time he became Sultan, he had three: Mahmud, Mu [14] She is the sultan's consort with the most portraits in her name in the Ottoman Empire, though the portraits are imaginary depictions by painters. I am giving you answer about Mahidevran Sultan's rank.According to reliable sources it is confirmed that Mahidevran Sultan was Suleiman's Bas kadin(chief consort or chief lady).This was for those women who bore the eldest male child of reigning Sultan.As Mahidevran Sultan was the mother of Sehzade Mustafa,eldest son of Suleiman the magnificent,it is very logical that she held the rank Bas kadin or Birinci Kadin,it's from me which is logical. [16]:130 Suleiman and Hurrem's last child, ehzade Cihangir was born with a hunchback, but by that time Hurrem had borne enough healthy sons to secure the future of the Ottoman dynasty. In 1521, Mustafa became chief prince due to his half-brothers deaths. Our ancestors said that the plague goes away once the trees shed their leaves in autumn."[26]. Hurrem gave birth to her first son Mehmed in 1521 (who died in 1543) and then to four more sons, destroying Mahidevran's status as the mother of the sultan's only son. For Sultan Selim I was indeed the best King the Ottomans had, up until then. Again, it's just my opinion I still oppose the change of title. After the executions, Mahidevran moved to Bursa to build a proper grave for her son and lived there until her death in 1581. Learn how and when to remove this template message, CrimeanNogai slave raids in Eastern Europe, De moribus tartarorum, lituanorum et moscorum, "2 Reasons Why Hurrem Sultan and Empress Ki were similar", "Ottoman Empire History Encyclopedia - Letter H - Ottoman Turkish history with pictures - Learn Turkish", Constantinople: City of the World's Desire, 14531924, "Hrrem Sultan: A beloved wife or master manipulator? You can cite thousands of pop culture books with erronous facts, rumours and misconceptions. Hurrem Haseki Sultan, or Roxelana, is well-known both in modern Turkey and in the West, and is the subject of many artistic works. In this article the sentence about Mahidevran's origin had been changed several times. She did served as a "cheif consort" (bash Kadin) before Haseki Hurrem Sultan. Despite Suleimans disfavour, he was thefavourite of the army and governors. Now Mahidevran became a chief consort as a mother of the only prince in the Empire. God willing, it will go away as soon as you return to the city. Hurrem died on 15 April 1558 due to an unknown illness and was buried in a domed mausoleum (trbe) decorated in exquisite Iznik tiles depicting the garden of paradise, perhaps in homage to her smiling and joyful nature. If you all come to an agreement earlier let me know. Most other sixteenth-century Western sources on Hurrem, which are considered highly authoritative today such as Turcicae epistolae (English: The Turkish Letters) of Ogier de Busbecq, the Emissary of the Holy Roman Emperor Ferdinand I at the Porte between 1554 and 1562; the account of the murder of ehzade Mustafa by Nicholas de Moffan; the historical chronicles on Turkey by Paolo Giovio; and the travel narrative by Luidgi Bassano derived from hearsay.[11]. Marvin died of natural causes after reportedly being hospitalized after experiencing chest pains On 13th March 2021, Marvin Hagler unexpectedly passed away in his New Hampshire home. She wrote, "My dearest Sultan! Just Skip that Cariye part as everyone knows even the princesses who were lawfully wedded to Sultans of Ottoman dynasty, Shah Jehans of Mughal emperors and Sheikhs of Arab, were all considered slave to their husbands. [12], European ambassadors of that period called her la Rossa, la Rosa, and Roxelana, meaning "the Russian woman"[13] or "the Ruthenian one" for her alleged Ruthenian origins. Also, the rules are clear: no woman other than the sultan's own female blood relatives and main wife use the title of sultan [7]. Partly. Its was Mahidevrans fault that Sultan Suleiman focused all his attention on Hrrem Sultana. Simply because Mahidevran was too proud and wan Alex2006 (talk) 15:04, 12 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], @Keivan.f I haven't searched about mahidvran but happen to have read about her. It was not because Hafsa Sultan was firmly against this unification, but because it was not allowed for a concubine to rise above the status of the Valide Sultan (Queen Mother). And only after the release of the series Magnificent Century, where she was one of the main characters, various information about this sultana began to appear on the Internet.As Mahidevran's contemporaries wrote, in life she was a black-haired beauty with brown eyes.
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